NATO for Ukraine in 2008 will be a very difficult target. Currently most Ukrainians are opposed to NATO. Myself...I have mixed feelings on the issue...but definitely believe the issue should be explored and the populace given no-biased information so they also can better understand the issue.

no-biased or sometimes called unbiased information isn't really feasible, in that most purveyors of unbiased information are actually very biased they just want you to take them at their word without question. Better to have all information presented, and people to use their good judgement to sort it out. And...after that NATO would be rejected because NATO has long since outgrown its purpose. It would be more forward thinking to envision Euro integration and joining a new military alliance that may spring from that. Atlantic? Please its just a cheap excuse to include the United States in Europe's business. Europe doesn't need the U.S. and I'm not sure the U.S. can afford these things much longer anyway... if the dollar plunges, and divestiture in the dollar continues, then the free money that the U.S. economy is absolutely dependent upon, may dry up... in such a scenario the U.S. may not have the money to fund the worlds military organizations anyway.

no-biased or sometimes called unbiased information isn't really feasible, in that most purveyors of unbiased information are actually very biased they just want you to take them at their word without question. Better to have all information presented, and people to use their good judgement to sort it out. And...after that NATO would be rejected because NATO has long since outgrown its purpose. It would be more forward thinking to envision Euro integration and joining a new military alliance that may spring from that. Atlantic? Please its just a cheap excuse to include the United States in Europe's business. Europe doesn't need the U.S. and I'm not sure the U.S. can afford these things much longer anyway... if the dollar plunges, and divestiture in the dollar continues, then the free money that the U.S. economy is absolutely dependent upon, may dry up... in such a scenario the U.S. may not have the money to fund the worlds military organizations anyway.

no-biased or sometimes called unbiased information isn't really feasible, in that most purveyors of unbiased information are actually very biased they just want you to take them at their word without question. Better to have all information presented, and people to use their good judgement to sort it out. And...after that NATO would be rejected because NATO has long since outgrown its purpose. It would be more forward thinking to envision Euro integration and joining a new military alliance that may spring from that. Atlantic? Please its just a cheap excuse to include the United States in Europe's business. Europe doesn't need the U.S. and I'm not sure the U.S. can afford these things much longer anyway... if the dollar plunges, and divestiture in the dollar continues, then the free money that the U.S. economy is absolutely dependent upon, may dry up... in such a scenario the U.S. may not have the money to fund the worlds military organizations anyway.

crud...sorry about the extra posts...not sure how that happened, I probably hit the back key, sorry. Hey that site you mentioned...you must mean http://forua.wordpress.com/ ....you left the u out of the word.

People you see here is 3 versions ib 3 languages. Russian. Ukrainian, English. Content varies much. In Russian journalists criticize Yushenko and here they post excelent informacion about him. Believe after it journalists. I want to say you: UKRAINE WILL NEVER BE IN NATO!!!!! RUSSIANS ARE OUR FRIENDS AND BROTHERS AND YOU ALL ARE MANIPULATED BY NATO USA EU. WE WILL NEVER BETRAY RUSSIANS!!!! NEVER!!!!!! Now you countries decided to destroy us. Yushenko provides agressive to Ukrain politics, and we DISGUST him!!!!!!! Who are Ukraines??? They are the peoples of real RUSSIA -- USSR -- this is our motherland and it will come back soon. NATO wants to destroy us, USA want our soldiers fight for American interests, but never do it. They want us to war with RUSSIANS our brothers!!!! It'll NEVER happen. Only because of this purposes we all watch the game named "Ukrainian democracy". After Yushenko coming democracy became awfull almost absence, Yushenko make contradicting

contradicting to constitution orders, he is dictator like Hitler!!!!! And you fools if you believe in good mission of NATO, if you believe Yushenko is good -- you stupid, if you believe to George Bush you are sick!!!!!!!! Good medicine what you need in this occasion!!!! But I say to you NATO brigs harm to all!!!! U 2!!!! Our childrem fight not for peace but for war!!!!!! We all know USSR will be back in spite of your efforts of preventing it. America is the country of infinite lei, and industry of weapon that yave already killed more then 40 million people during XX century. Hitler Germany killed 50 millions. You coming cloth!!!! Recall the end of fashist-germany with its occupation with RUSSIAN troops on the streets. We are counting you -- the same end waits America if it not stop!!! Bush will not die in nuclear war only common citizens, continue supporting NATO and Yushenko -- they'll bring the Apocalypsis!!! I hope you understand more then popmusic popcorn and "coolwow" I

I hope siting in internet are not so dumm as common americans or englishmen. I was in usa and uk I was startled!!!! I hope you are not devoid of brain and understand what realy happen in world and in Ukraine too, if you feel interest!!!! If you disagree -- PROVE IT!!!! With the help of logic and TRUE facts, not fiction of CNN BBC etc... I know you can't!!!! If ypu try it is imposible becausse you country (ies) lies to you us others... By the way in Iraq died more then 10 000 your soldiers, of course they didn't say you this information

I hope siting in internet are not so dumm as common americans or englishmen. I was in usa and uk I was startled!!!! I hope you are not devoid of brain and understand what realy happen in world and in Ukraine too, if you feel interest!!!! If you disagree -- PROVE IT!!!! With the help of logic and TRUE facts, not fiction of CNN BBC etc... I know you can't!!!! If ypu try it is imposible becausse you country (ies) lies to you us others... By the way in Iraq died more then 10 000 your soldiers, of course they didn't say you this information

And you're blind as a bat. Boy have you gotten a good job of brainwashing, by your Kremlin criminals. You've never been to the US because you wouldn't be talking trash, the way you are. Your propaganda won't work here bud.

i think the Ukraine would benifite quite a lot from NATO membership, since it would seriously restrict Russia's ability to manipulate it. Too bad its to get in the EU though... Seriously - it's an unstable, dangerously unregulated beurocratic nightmare. i'm all for a united Europe - but not like this! please, just take your time and go back to the drawing board or risk commiting the entire continent to something you may wish had never come to be. - and to Creston ... wow... before you type, take a deep breath (and wipe the foam from your mouth). you preach about OUR ignorance and propoganda, but to put a twist on an old saying: "never has so much been so evidant in so few"

Man, this about you. You don't know what Ukraine is, you pay no attention on the opinion of ukraine-people. Almost all are against of enterance the alliance. Next, my friend, we are happy of raising the power of Russia. And we better restrict the ability of NATO bomb inocent countries. Of cource here nobody believes to europe and america, your lie is too primitive and everybody easily can understand it. Tony I don't provide propaganda I'm not servant, and you as I see are... better you take away a foam from you mouth. I know in cia you all adore it -- this is the only bussiness you able to fullfill correctly. Proceed doing it, and don't touch us, Ukraine will never join this organization. Putin is too noble man, and Russians are too kind, if it is your desire we would like you make you suck russian rocket as you do with "instrument" of your chief. Good luck Tony, remember your mouth and tender lips are the only way of career success. I know you able to make successful one.

United States combined with all of Europe to create strong military force against ever growing radical Islam terrorist roups is the only hope of survival. All must join in this war and pledge their support and their monetary help. If not, then all world will lose people and be at war. Smaller countried will be wiped off map bu nuclear bombs. People will die. It will be like holocaust. Can no one see this future rising? Did we learn nothing from growing threat of Nazi Germany? For that matter, Nazi paln was to rule entire world. It is because United States stepped in and helped that now Europe is free and thrives despite it's politcal problems. But these problems will be as nothing is radical terrorists are not stamped out immediately. War will happen to all of us whether we want it or not. It is time for all to go on the offensive, for entire world to join together against this growing menace before you are reduced to ashes and placed under radical Islamic rule.

so its come to insults creston? must mean you've got nothing left, but you HAVE posted five comments chocked full of nothing but ignorant rants and insults. anytime you wanna join in with serious debat i'd love to here it (no really, i'm not being sarcastic). i'm sure your response will be just as angry, uninformed, and insulting as the others.

2 tony. I'm tired of infinite lie of leaders you support. I'm tired of american propaganda. I live here and know the real situation in Ukraine, but insultment is a politics of your country. Why I ignore? Because it not fits interests of Ukraine. Of cource America is not interested with in it , trys just to gain its profits from the situation. Of cource from Langly situation looks more obviously then from Kiev...))) From your side we see nothing but lie, and attempts to quarell us with each other and RUSSIA. We are shocked why you order us what is democratical and what not... If we vote "Ours Ukraine" this is democratical choice, when "Regional party" -- this is falsifications and absence of democracy. Yes, the true face of America is ugly, no doubts. We see this lie, try at least to imagine new one more original and not so primitive, then may be we will speak.

Michael!!!!! Here is he!!!!!! You said to me you are Ukrainian. who left in Siberia, but you speak English much better then RUSSIAN or Ukranian)))))) May be you've never been in Russia or Ukraine. And after it you, americans, tell us you say truth. You don't need having of big logical abilities to understand who you realy are. Michael you don't answer my comments in Russian version (I guess you cant understand with you awfull cia translaters)))))))) Answer my now in English: when you'll find time, go to market and bye NEW HEAD... This serves you very bad)))) Like most of americans. I dn't abuse I look on your nation, uneducated, with low knowledge, unability of analysing informacion and this not only about Ukraine but the life of america too. Raide you intelligence, aquire new knowledge and may be you'll become interesting to speak with...

i don't support interfering in your countries affairs, and i understand your closely intertwined history with russia. all i'm saying is "whats to loose in having more friends"? if you long for the old soviet block thats fine, but there's apparently more than 'just a few' people in the Ukraine who think otherwise. are they all wrong? is everyone who doesn't agree with you "poisoned by western propaganda"? is it possible YOU are the one filled with missinformation and hate? the EU may not be for you, and maybe NATO isn't either - but for us to beleive otherwise you gotta convince us with facts and a good argument, and at times accept the shortcomings (if indeed there are) of your ideal. i do it all the time. the shortcomings of america are FAR too many to list here, but it is not beyond repair. and though i despise many of the people in power, i will always respect what my country is meant to be, and the hope of what it can be.

During its history NATO wanted to destroy us. Unfortuanly we see NATo now aimed on RUSSIA and what us as a troops knowing russians will never shoot us. The safety of nato was many times proved -- in Yougoslavia (still nobody can prove Miloshevich killed albanians -- no evidence), Iraq (where is weapon of muss distraction?) and other countries. You provide only evil and death in whole world and we must join you. For what? For safety? You just want us fight in Afganistan, Iraq, may be Iran for YOUR interests, make us die for your oil and profits of big companies. Isnt it? Like polish die in Iraq you want us, this is the aim of our support in nato. But Russia posseses much more oil then Iran, or Iraq... Russia is the reason of nato existance, but I say you I'll never conqer Russia, there were pretenders Napoleon, Adolf Hitler, you'll repead their fate. About propaganda. Our life was better during USSR, now 70% for its rebuilding, 80% against nato, but...

your servant Yushenko does his best to make us enter alliance in spite of absence of any desire from our side, and make us quarell with Russian. WHY????? There live our brothers, friend, sisters, peoples that are cloth to ukranian soul. We lived together with them more then thousand of years, and are persuaiden they are friends and brothers, because they didn't do any bad thing for us. And now you come and say Russia are you enemies now, we are the best and powerfull country in the world your new friend. In soviet times we realy wanted to bomb you, yes, we wanted make launch on the Ukrain territory, bet now we are your friend. We want us stop your relationship with Russians, worship america and yusenko and timoshenko and fight for our interests. We know what NATO is and prefer alliance with Russia. It is not so long time before Youshenko will go to prison and we rebuild our union with brothers, You'll never stop us. Better try to cope with economical problems at hand.

thats understandable, - kinda like if france, germany, and brittan wanted to ally themselves with russia (i don't think that'd go over well here). our relations with russia have always been a little dicy, if not outright hostil - but we are the fathers of differing ideologies and (like religion) they don't mesh well with others. i don't think the cold war ever really ended, and as long as we are both powerful and influential, i don't know if it ever really will. in that respect i see how NATO can never be of use to the ukraine. we (that i know of... ) don't want to end your relationship with russia. i think our actions are missplaced in thinking we are somehow helping you stand for yourselves. if this is the case it would probably be best for everyone if NATO where not involved, as it would always be seen as either a tool of the west or a way to mannipulate your government.

Well... Russia and America came to decision not to take powerfull armour in to the eastern europe, but now america is building there antirocket defence. Don't say it is against Iran, and nothern Korea/ But just look on the map where is Iran and Korea. This is against Russia. This is contradictory to the decision of taking away powerfull weapom from the europe. America again lied us, when we've written documents with it. Specialist say America can use this bases ib Poland not only for antirocket activity, but for placing there real nuclear rockets. America say it will not do it, but after Yougoslavia, SU, Vietnam, IRAQ there is no beliefe. America want to start big nuclera war. An Ukraine stay between Russian and NATO. We will support Russia, because see Nato is instrument of agressive actions not peace.

In all waht you write tony there is just common words. I wrote you a lot of provements of my word, but you did nothing to make truthfull provening of yours and in your comment I don't see them. That is why again there is no beliefe to your words, and you. We know Yushenko is not democratic, we see waht is your country realy without endless lie, and we say first don't persuade us after your lie we don't believe you. Your words contradict the situation at hand. You seldom say truth. Ukraine will never be part of nato, and yushenko will soon leave his place, and we'll come back to Russia. What impress me in americans they never prove their position with truthfull facts, only unproved words, that can't stay against common logical analysis.

common - but they were my words, and not used lightly. its how i feel about these things, so take it for whatever its worth. you can never trust us, fine - i get that. i'm only going to say this once, we have NO interests in either russian or estern european conquests, no will to fight there, and no dillusions of exherting any power in that region. frankly, we'd like a total withdrawl and let the world sort itself out. i'm just tired of the hatered. people yell for help and we come, only to be called imperialists and warmongers. when we don't we're called hippocrites, and they claim there's nothing to exploit. even it we send food aid and money everyone says were just mannipulating the local leaders for our own gains. isolationism is becoming more popular these days. i say this with all sincerity that NOTHING would make me happier than to wake up tomarow and find every scrap of our millitary and economic pressence pulled back to our own soil.

Oh yes, you want. And why you're building antirocket defence near our boards? Against Iran or Northen Korea, you suppose we are not acquaited with geography? Condo(M)lisa Rise hints there will be not only antirockets but offensive nuks too. After it you say you don't want have your troops out of america??? You're going to start new war with Iran -- is it your home? Our the whole planet your home? Big america? You have your troops in most countries of the world -- this is your peacfull politics. Again you lie. This don't wonder, we always here from america "common" lie. Again I didn't see any facts that proves your point of view. Do they exist??? Unfortualy not. You're agressive country and war is the only way of your development. You give food? After bombing, and destruction of whole economics of many countries. You give before it execute will of you, and your billioners. If somebody try to rule the independent politics you block development of that country.

Ciao PierLuigi l' Ucraina e' un paese variegato, direi diviso tra la parte industriale che desidera continuare i contatti con la Russia (ma non solo) e quella parte dell' Ucraina dedita all' agricoltura e pastorizia, dove la demagogia ed il populismo va per la maggiore, che anela ad integrarsi con l' Europa, considerata la "salvezza" e panacea, per tutti i problemi. Vorrei esporre la mia opinione, da Italiano che conosce da tempo l' Ucraina. L' unica nazione veramente amica dell' Ucraina e' la Russia, unita di lingua, cultura, mentalita, in parte economia, solamente una integrazione economica tra gli ex URSS ha possibilita di riuscire. Cosa offre la NATO all' Ucraina ?? ma cosa ?? da chi deve difendersi l' Ucraina ? Cosa offre l' Europa all' Ucraina ?? quali benefici economici ? ha denari l' Europa, dopo l' ingresso di Romania, Bulgaria ecc ecc parlare di politica, giusto per favorire Europa e NATO (pertanto USA) non ha senso in UA. Qua si chiede

riprendo .. qua si chiede stabilita economica, politica, snellimento della Pubblica Amministrazione, a pochi interessa la NATO eppoi, chi parla di "integrazione Europea" sa bene che non e' neppure possibile per i prossimi 20 anni. dasfidania !

Alternative nNews Discussion forum http://forua.wordpress.com

If the west s really interested in freedom an well being of the ukrainian people why would america and israel force ukraine and georgia to attack russia then force ukraine and georgia to join nato since they have attacked russi and now only safety is with the cia led west... if the cia led west wants to help ukraine why would the cia employ 50 000 so called senior citizens as english language teachers in ukraine who are under cover cia agents who are instigating riots and hardships to coerce ukraine to be a slave of the us led gestapo called the imf or world bank???